254. From Self-Doubt to Self-Trust: What Happens After You Finally Choose Yourselfi

Samantha Hawley (: 00:00

Welcome to Beyond Awareness. Today we are talking about what happens after you make a confident decision and you actually stick to it. You're not like going back, although we will also talk about that, and the aftermath of choosing yourself and why it sometimes doesn't feel great, why it feels worse before it gets better. And I have Maddie Elise here with me to help me with this conversation slash to lead us in this conversation.

Welcome to the show, Maddie.

Maddie (: 00:30

Thank you so much. I'm so stoked to be here. This is like a topic that I'm just so passionate about and, you know, could talk anyone's ear off about. So I'm just really excited to share kind of any information and yeah, tips.

Samantha Hawley (: 00:47

Awesome. We love it. So you work with women who have already started choosing themselves, right? And so that type of woman, they are making the confident decisions and or starting to, but they can't stay with the decision sometimes once that discomfort, the discomfort hits. And I feel like I know that so well because I'm a former people pleaser. Sometimes I still slip into that.

And so it was so hard for me to start even making decisions and knowing what it is that I wanted. So I thought we could start off if you could give some examples of that moment, whether that be like from your experience or your clients of that moment where you do choose yourself and kind of like what that looks like, and then the feelings that come up afterwards and what that is so that my listeners can identify with.

when they felt that or if they are currently going through that right now.

Maddie (: 01:46

Definitely. Yeah. So it's kind of like when you're on that edge of a decision and really it could be any kind of decision that you feel like some part of your identity no longer belongs. So you're kind of going through like almost like a little bit of an identity shift and that's kind of the easy part you could say is the actual like

bringing that to your awareness and the choosing of like, yeah, I want to do something different. I no longer like this job and it's, know, I'm ready to move on. I'm ready to move on from this relationship. I'm ready to just like pursue something different than what I currently am experiencing because it's bringing me either like into like a smallness or a...

feeling of ⁓ just like wanting more for yourself. think it comes generally, you know, kind of from that aspect. ⁓ So it's actually in like the choosing is the first step, which people tend to do very easily. It's the staying with the discomfort after choosing that becomes the difficult part.

So I work with women that are in the moment, ⁓ like about to abandon themselves in those little micro moments where they're reopening their decision, they're feeling regret, or they're feeling self doubt, or they're feeling that like, ooh, like there's a lot of excuses why maybe I should collapse back into the where I just was, or where I currently am and want to stay. Yeah.

Samantha Hawley (: 03:29

Yeah,

yeah, that's great. So why is it so hard then to stay confident once you do make that choice that you probably, when you make that choice, you're like, yes, I finally did it. I'm going this direction. I'm claiming it. Why is it so hard to stay in that energy?

Maddie (: 03:48

Definitely. So I mean, it's complex for sure, because there's a lot of little nuances, but with my experience, I've noticed that we tend to go into a few different patterns that are essentially just the flow of a decision, the flow of change. And I think once we experience these

kind of three main patterns that we end up defaulting to. They're so familiar and they're so still uncomfortable, but there is some sort of comfort in the familiarity of them where we kind of feel like we belong. And there's a lot of proof that attaches to these past experiences that have told us that we do belong there. So those kind of three states are negotiation,

collapse and over performance. So these are just like a natural part of making a decision and going through an identity shift and making a big change in your life or even a small change. They show up in various formats and ways, but definitely like those three things, we must accept that they are a part of it and they don't

mean failure. They don't mean stop, even though our nervous system is telling us that it's unsafe to move forward.

Samantha Hawley (: 05:23

I think that once you're aware of a pattern, it's like frustrating and almost like sometimes we judge ourselves for having that pattern or feeling it again, but just the awareness is also so reassuring. So like once you make that decision and then you can sense that negotiation and then you know that, pattern number one of this flow of a decision is negotiation.

It's almost like, okay, this makes sense. It doesn't mean it's the wrong decision. It's like validation that in and of itself. Like, I'm sure we can go so much deeper into each one of these patterns, but just knowing that feels good. And is that what you mean when you talk about reopening a decision? Does it relate to these three patterns or is that separate?

Maddie (: 06:09

Yes, definitely. Yeah, reopening the decision is what negotiation is. Yeah. Yeah.

Samantha Hawley (: 06:18

Now, when you are, and before I go on actually, can you talk about the over-performance one? How does that come out?

Maddie (: 06:28

Yes, so the overperformance one is essentially it's like the the fear of like, ⁓ I just made a decision because I was like feeling really motivated and activated. But like, what if I can't hold that? What if I can't actually step into that level of responsibility and visibility that I just kind of committed to? ⁓ So ways that we, you know, we we tend to kind of maybe feel that and then

hit either negotiation or collapse again. But if we stay in that overperformance, we feel like we have something to prove. We stay really busy. Usually you see people overworking, prioritizing others, like always above themselves.

Samantha Hawley (: 07:17

I've never thought about overperforming because of a decision that you made. So that's really eye-opening. And then what is collapsing? Is that like making yourself smaller afterwards?

Maddie (: 07:26

job.

Yeah, collapsing is a little bit more focused on like ⁓ freezing, withdrawing. And that main fear is like, if this were right, it should feel easier. It should feel like I know who I'm becoming. And there should be less uncertainty.

Samantha Hawley (: 07:55

And should there not be any uncertainty when you're making a decision and choosing yourself?

Maddie (: 08:00

There definitely should be. think that's like a natural part of the process. Yeah, it's, it can be very scary. There have been so many examples in my life where I have said no to something known and essentially the meaning yes to something unknown. And that in between state is so uncomfortable. And I think that's where you see a lot of people going back to

in action and shutting down or ⁓ reopening that decision because there is a lot of unknown in and trust required to stick with that discomfort of the unknown and that is where self-trust comes in.

Samantha Hawley (: 08:51

Yeah. And so when you talk about the discomfort and just how uncomfortable it is to be in this flow of a decision in any one or all three of these patterns, what does that feel like? How is that showing up in our bodies? And so if someone might think, no, I don't negotiate or I don't collapse or I don't overperform, but...

Maddie (: 09:15

Yeah.

Samantha Hawley (: 09:17

your client might come to you and they have constant migraines, right? So like what are those physical symptoms that you see a lot?

Maddie (: 09:24

Yes, definitely. mean, anxiety is like a huge one. like feeling, I describe it as like feeling unsafe in the body. So physically what that means is like anxiety is showing up ⁓ in decision, in, in most, most like basic decisions, even like what you're wearing, what you're eating that day, ⁓ things like that, or like just the back and forth. Like, you know, those times where you just like,

are kind of you get like your: 5000

Like I've had times where I'm like, just like, gotta get out of here. I gotta leave that house. Cause I'm just like feeling almost like pent up, like restricted. ⁓ So that level of resistance in that discomfort is equaling all of these things ⁓ in the body. And then obviously, you know, just that sense of just feeling like in stable, insecure, always like a frog in your throat, ⁓ feeling like you.

Samantha Hawley (: 10:40

Mm-hmm.

Maddie (: 10:51

want to speak but you don't really know what to say and every time you go to speak it's just like not coming to you and you're afraid of being alone you don't want to like sit with yourself you're just avoiding.

Samantha Hawley (: 11:06

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel like a lot of women probably are having that like mental chatter and just thinking like just commit already, like stop being so indecisive, judging themselves of like, just do it. And what I hear a lot of from my clients is like, just be more disciplined, just have the motivation, just do it, like just do the thing. And they don't understand that there is likely a belief underneath it or there's just this disconnect between

Maddie (: 11:33

Mm-hmm.

Samantha Hawley (: 11:36

their mind and their body, or there's this self-trust. So from your perspective, what is it that is keeping women kind of like judging themselves or in this, like their body is feeling so icky when they do this, and then committing actually to the things that would make them feel good and get their life going in the direction that they want it to.

Maddie (: 11:51

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Yeah, so I really think that like clarity without the capacity leads to the self-betrayal. So we might know better. We know what we need to do. We feel like we want to do it, but we're still like, we haven't onboarded our nervous system yet. And there's a difference between waiting to feel safe to move.

and also bringing your nervous system along while you move. And it's a very fine line and it is very different for everyone. So it's hard to speak to it in a volume of like, just listen to this and apply it because it is very specific to your scenario. And that's why I work in like small groups. ⁓ But definitely it requires us to

take one degree shifts and it's not grand. It's not a moment of like, my gosh, I feel so much better. can finally now like get up and stop having anxiety. You know, like it really requires a combination of acceptance for where you're at.

Samantha Hawley (: 13:09

Yeah.

Maddie (: 13:21

identifying the reality of what's going on and the reality of your capacity. Not where you want to be, not what you want to hold, but what you can actually do right now. More than like making a list of all the things you want to do. Don't get stuck in that. Just actually do something you were about to write down on your list. Just go and physically do it. Those are the one degree shifts and we get so

Samantha Hawley (: 13:39

Yeah.

Maddie (: 13:50

I mean, there's so many reasons why we think and are conditioned the way we are, which is a whole other topic, but it's really about like taking it from the present moment forward. And so what can you do right now that moves that needle forward? And if it feels too big, then you're either looking in the right spot or you need to break that down into five more steps and take step one.

Samantha Hawley (: 14:18

Hmm. So as you were talking, I was just thinking of the whole big picture. And I wrote down, you make a decision, and then you accept the flow of patterns that might pop in, and you accept the reality of what your beliefs are. And or you accept the anxiety that you might be feeling, having a very almost objective view of what is happening.

Maddie (: 14:45

Yeah.

Samantha Hawley (: 14:45

And then

from there, you do the one degree shifts to create capacity in your nervous system. And then that will lead to sticking to that confident decision or to that decision confidently. Is that what you say would be the process?

Maddie (: 14:52

Mm-hmm.

now.

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like that, like identify, soothe, move and prove. So do what you can to soothe yourself with the knowledge that you're not gonna feel 100 % safe because you have so much proof backing up why it's not safe. This is a whole new thing. So you do have to take that move in order to prove.

And either way, whatever you do, whatever choice you make, whatever movement you do or do not take is reinforcing the proof of this is safe or this is not safe.

Samantha Hawley (: 15:42

I love that. Identify, soothe, move, prove. Now is that related to self-embodyment? Because I know that that is your whole thing, self-leadership, self-embodyment. So can you speak to that a little bit about what that is and how we actually do that in the day-to-day world, not in the, I want to lead myself every day, like affirmation style, but showing up every day like that?

Maddie (: 16:05

Yeah.

Definitely. It does require those one degree shifts and how you anchor those are into like actual action. So in, you know, in like a group that I run, it's like we set our intention and then we anchor that into action, what that does look like in your week.

and then making that mean something. We make things mean things all the time. So it's important to use that to our benefit and just work with the way that our mind already works and a great way to attach an action because the last thing we want to do when we're maxed out our capacity is add more to our plate. So it's really important to recognize that like

we can actually add a little something attached to something else and it is going to give us a return on our investment of that time and energy. So for example, that would be like, I don't know, you get up and have a coffee while your coffee's brewing, you're putting your hand on your heart and your hand on your belly and you're taking five breaths. I wanted to say 10, but 10 might be too much. So let's pull back, right?

Samantha Hawley (: 17:22

Yeah

Yeah, I like that. And I love that you said attach a meaning to it. So what type of meaning would you attach to that action?

Maddie (: 17:34

it would be related to whatever your intention is. So that kind of like bigger picture where it's like, I want to feel grounded. I want to feel less anxiety. It's like, well, what does that actually look like? What do you, what do you picture that to look like? So now you can attach the action that when I do this, I have less anxiety. When I do this, I feel more grounded.

Samantha Hawley (: 17:59

So good, because one thing that I journal through myself and help a lot of women with is really talking about the elephant in the room, that we attach a meaning to everything. And so many people say it doesn't matter what other people think. It doesn't matter what, you know, our judgments aren't right. What would you say to a best friend? Yeah, yeah, detach from the outcome or detach from all these things. it's like, but we are humans. We are also.

Maddie (: 18:16

Yeah.

or detach.

Samantha Hawley (: 18:28

women and we are thinking that anyway. So I love that first and foremost you're recognizing that but then also reframing it to then like swap it like attach a new meaning to the action so that it actually is benefiting you and rewiring your brain to keep doing it because if you are if you know that that is the thing that's grounding you or you know whatever the intention is.

that in and of itself, you're gonna wanna keep doing that and build upon that.

Maddie (: 18:59

Absolutely. And like every time that you do that, it build reinforces that proof and that just builds more self trust. So at some point it's no longer about the action and it's just about like you trusting yourself to again, like it, kind of creates more, resilience for

any discomfort that's coming up. So I'm all about that like proactive kind of approach because things that happen in our day to day lives are going to continue to happen. And how we respond to that will always be through negotiation, collapsing or over performance. It's about staying through that, identifying it.

doing what you need to do so that you can take an action and show yourself the proof that you survived. So you show your nervous system the proof that you're surviving through hard things.

Samantha Hawley (: 20:05

Love that. And one thing I should have mentioned earlier is that you and I have very similar beliefs, if you will, ⁓ and like mindset around how we help people because this whole podcast is beyond awareness. And then the subtitle is Closing the Gap Between Knowing and Doing. And you help your subtitles closing the gap between knowing and choosing, I think. And so do you want to talk about how you came up with that or what that means to you? Like, how do you go

What is that gap between knowing and choosing for you?

Maddie (: 20:38

Hmm such a good question because I do think it's kind of individual for everybody So for me knowing and choosing was to just like recognize that no one was going to come and save me and then after that it was like I don't need anybody to come and save me because I'm here and

I wasn't there for a while. I was dealing with severe back pain and day to day, like eight out of 10 pain, became chronic for over a year. And it put me into a massive down spiral. And before that, it was kind of on and off for a couple of years prior, but then I had lost my job and then I couldn't find another job. And then I was questioning.

everything. And I had so many stories attached to starting my business, stopping my business, leaving myself, ⁓ and then add on that daily pain. was just like, would, I wanted to do, I would do anything. I literally remember thinking, I want to go to some sort of surgeon to fix this for me because I just want it to be fixed. just want it to be better. And

I realized like it wasn't like a big aha moment and there wasn't like a day where I woke up and was like, I feel motivated now to go and get myself off this couch and move my body and reconnect with myself. It was not so grandiose. It was literally just recognizing where I was at, how deeply I was betraying myself, how much I did not trust myself. I didn't trust the way I moved, the way I thought.

any behavior that I was doing was just felt so self-sabotaging. And that was, I was living in the gap then because I recognized now I'm in the knowing, but I'm still not choosing differently. So I lived in that gap for so long that I just, now that I am out of that, I do recognize it as a place that became so familiar to me because of

other scenarios in my life where I've had to choose differently and being on identity shifts. ⁓ So that to me is the gap of is that in between that that you know different but you're still not really choosing differently. Your expectations are very high on yourself. You're putting yourself in a pressure cooker to make it different and the only thing you can really do is one

tiny, tiny little thing that feels like not enough. But it is enough because it compacts.

Samantha Hawley (: 23:30

Yeah.

That's so inspiring. And the one thing I want to touch on before we close out is for any of the women listening that aren't yet choosing themselves, because we've so far been talking about the people and the women who are making those decisions initially that are like saying yes to themselves, they know what they want. And what about the women who are just like you that were living or are living in the gap that you were living in?

How can they start choosing themselves? ⁓ Is it the same 1 % movements or one degree, movements is it? One degree shifts. Is it the same type of shifts as that we talked about earlier?

Maddie (: 24:17

It is the same, but real life is not linear. And I do believe that we have to go through hard things. And there is a reality where sometimes we're in the hard thing that we have to experience. Not as a

excuse and not as a reason to ⁓

be like passive in your life, but more using that information as like a check-in point and really looking honestly with yourself if there's somewhere that you are resisting in your circumstances because sometimes life circumstances suck.

And this is part of life, right? So I think to really like give you an answer for that, it's

Is there anywhere in your life that you can shift your resistance to acceptance?

Coming back to, okay, what can I control right now? I may not be able to control how I feel. That may feel like way out of my capacity. I might not be able to control how much money I'm making, where I live, how other people see me, how other people treat me. But what can I control in my proximity right here? I can close my eyes.

and I can ask myself how I'm feeling. I can take five deep breaths. I can tune in just for a minute. Just to prove to myself that I can, even if it doesn't feel good, even if it doesn't feel safe, even if it feels silly, doing something, I promise you, is better than doing nothing.

Samantha Hawley (: 26:32

So good. And I love those examples because every, I shouldn't say every single person, but the most common thing that I'm sure we both hear is that we don't have time. I mean, we probably, I say it from time to time too, if like I don't have enough time, but we have 60 seconds. We have enough time for five breaths. In fact, I once heard that three deep breaths, like inhale and exhales, takes 12 seconds.

Maddie (: 26:49

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. ⁓

Samantha Hawley (: 27:03

We

all can do that, right? And just like when you picture like tuning into yourself and asking how I feel that felt so like, wow, I should do that today. Like right after this call, I'm gonna do that. Because I haven't done that in so simple in a little while.

Maddie (: 27:15

It just...

Yeah,

yeah, and it like it doesn't have to be this whole thing and honestly, I think one thing that I haven't really touched on yet is like, just to, you know, wrap it in is like, we know what we need. Stop pretending that you don't know what you need. You've been saying you should do this, you need to do this. I really want to do this. Like, even in our darkest times in our darkest days, like

Samantha Hawley (: 27:37

Mmm.

Maddie (: 27:47

We know exactly what we need. We are just so unwilling to admit to ourselves sometimes that we don't want to choose it.

And that is a hard pill to swallow because then there's no one else to blame but us. And it's not about blame. It's just about staying with that discomfort again, like staying with the discomfort that we didn't choose for so long to just fix it. Not like fixing it, but just to acknowledge it, accept it, identifying it, taking an action, proving to ourselves that we do have our own backs.

even in the simplest form. So I guess that would be truly if, you know, for myself back then, it's like, what are you, like, if you did have a choice, if you could choose right now, what would you choose differently? And then keep asking that until it no longer answers as your circumstance, someone else.

and something else that is not up to you right now. Keep answering it. Yeah.

Samantha Hawley (: 29:02

Mm-hmm.

I love that because I've shared this story in the podcast multiple times, but when I was going to therapy during my divorce, my therapist asked me once, what is it that you need? And I stared at her like a deer in headlights. I was like, ⁓ I don't know. But looking back, I probably knew exactly what I needed. I just never tuned in to that. Like I wasn't quiet enough internally. I was so...

Maddie (: 29:22

percent.

Samantha Hawley (: 29:34

focused on my external circumstances, those three things, other people for sure, at that time, that, if you can just silence, even for like a couple of breaths, and asking that one question of like, what could I choose differently, that seems a little bit easier to answer than what do you need? I think there might be a weight or heaviness around needs for women. Like, it's scary to ask for it,

Maddie (: 29:57

Yes.

Samantha Hawley (: 30:00

What would you choose differently? think is almost a different way to ask what do you need. And that definitely feels more empowering. I like that you mentioned that.

Maddie (: 30:08

Yeah, language.

Language is huge. do I need? Right now, I couldn't even tell you. It's not a question that I respond to. Yeah, it's such a block because it feels like it just adds pressure to what I then need to do for myself. It's not the right question for me, and maybe it's not for other women as well. ⁓

Samantha Hawley (: 30:15

Right, yeah.

Hmm.

Maddie (: 30:34

Yeah, and just like reassurance for yourself. Like you will get through it. You will have your no more moment. It will come. You are in your process. It is just a part of it. And you just, you just have to keep going. Just believe and trust and yeah, try one little thing. Yeah, get curious.

Samantha Hawley (: 30:55

Amazing.

So good. Maddie, thank you so much. This was so inspiring and helpful and tangible and all the things. I think this was a good like combination of mindset but also tangible, which is I think you have to have both to have the biggest impact. So I so appreciate it. If people want to follow you and look into your membership and all the things, where can they find you?

Maddie (: 31:03

Good.

Yeah, I'm on Instagram, Maddie Elise. ⁓ So that's M-A-D-D-I-E-E-L-Y-S-S-E. It's actually just my first and middle name. I just like my middle name so much. was like, I'm just going to make this my business. ⁓ And I also have a website as well, maddieelise.com. And the membership is available on there. So I'm so excited for this.

Samantha Hawley (: 31:34

Perfect.

Maddie (: 31:43

next evolution and the women entering it.

Samantha Hawley (: 31:47

Great, I'll put all those links in the show notes. Thank you everyone for tuning in. I'm so happy that you guys all got to experience Maddie. And on Thursdays we have our strategic journaling episode, so tune back in. If you like this episode, we'll have some journaling prompts related to this. So thank you again for being here. Have a wonderful day everyone, and we'll talk to you soon.

Maddie (: 32:09

Thank you so much for having me. See you.